Ivan Babanovski, professor emeritus: "Coup" is a circus to prevent social uprising
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Professor, could you please initially explain what coup is and what overthrow of the constitutional order is?
Babanovski: In the case coup seems like a circus to me because in order to perform the coup some tools should be used that can show strength and elements that aim to overthrow the state order, the constitutional order and not one position or opposition in the country. There are no elements for a coup in the country where one party in a coalition with the party of the entity holds the absolute power, legislative, executive, police-security, court, there are no elements. It is a misuse of the term coup. The biggest abuse and coup in the country is by people who take actions that do not belong to them. Neither the Prime Minister nor the head of the opposition have the right to video someone secretly. So now I ask them, which court can they use it before?
Does this mean that all the evidence in the trial will eventually be discarded?
Babanovski: First, the evidence provided in this way cannot and must not be in court at all. It must neither be treated before court as it has been obtained in a criminal manner. Criminal acts cannot be evidence in a court procedure. They can only be evidence of conviction of one who committed it and not him to use it for someone else to be responsible. I refer to both parties. Now for the services it is most important to prove how and who participated in providing this evidence used for political purposes. Has any of the services given them in an unauthorized manner? It is another crime, disclosing official or state secret, unlike espionage and counter revolutionary attack on the constitutional system of government in a country.
Who and how can perform a coup or overthrow the constitutional order in one country?
Babanovski: A coup can be performed by structures which are either supported from inside or have powerful supporters or organizers of the international element, that is, it may be representatives of foreign secret services penetrated in their diplomatic and consular offices. So I think they will find themselves in a very unpleasant situation and the impression is that behind all that dirt out in the public the aim is to trick the public. This is not an opening of a problem to see where the problem is, but a fact that more dirty things will go out to deceive the citizens and to have no idea what is happening in the country. And a great shame is happening. Here those services, police-security, intelligence and counterintelligence are totally shaken.
What do you mean when you say shaken?
Babanovski: I want to say that all powers to the security services have been usurped. Intelligence which is under the command of the president of the country who at this time will not talk. First to react if someone prepares a coup in the country, the National Security Council was to convene. Even the Director of Security and Intelligence (DBK) did not appear to speak about the action “Coup” but the Interior minister. That is nonsense. Instead of the prosecutor to be Dominus litis in the procedure (the one who takes the whole control and responsibility), he to say what will be done, how it will be done, someone prompts and he performs it.
If all you say is like this, does this mean that the two actors in this action want to hide something much bigger?
Babanovski: I think this is an attempt to move the Macedonian citizen away from what as an avalanche is approaching and no politician can escape from it. Social revolt is approaching because we have come to the last foot of the patience of the masses to survive the day, to survive the week. I do not see any element that gives me hope that we will avoid it. Moreover, recent secession is threatening Macedonia.
How do you interpret the reactions of several foreign countries?
Babanovski: First they dissociated. All opportunities have immediately been cut to bond by involving their secret services. No state will recognize it. What country will allow saying that it is implied in anti-constitutional activities in a country that has its representatives, who are here to regulate good political, economic, military, cultural and all other relations between the two countries, no matter how small Macedonia is.
How would you assess the security situation in Macedonia? Is there a reason for concern?
Babanovski: I think we have never had a worse security situation before. Not because it is the result of our overall situations and relationships that are none, but because the Balkans is shaken. In this shakiness we are the bottom. How not to be concerned when two main leaders harass the Macedonian citizen and the third is silent because he is not sure in his position.
You are an ardent critic of the social developments in the country. Is your, conditionally said revolt, result of you having been lustrated?
Babanovski: I am not one of those who during the day were in function of the secret services, some of them have been and even today work for foreign services and at night secretly went to work for the interests of Macedonia and defended it against some danger that was exaggerated so that they can better establish themselves in the power which was later constituted. Because if I had been the opposition, I would have stayed in parliament. They only made it easier for the government to fulfill all its wishes. The three women who are out there know how to say what is wrong, have insight into what is happening there and the others who are not in parliament must make connections and operationally find out what happens in committees, working groups, in the corridors. Be there and “fight”. Be a man. I publicly say that I have voted for this shaken opposition which has made me live as a beast in my country and now I must not say it.
Is there a way out?
Babanovski: I would like to be wrong for the first time in my life but I arrange the cubes and they show something evil for Macedonia. But it is a biblical country and there is no chance for someone to take it from us, rename it and remake it. All these things we have been talking about are transient, we should endure them and unite. The greatest evil is that we ourselves are very shaken.